Thom Hartmann interviews Ray on Dec. 12 regarding the ‘Two CIAs;’ his work in the Analysis CIA; and how the Operations CIA wound up saluting orders from Cheney and Bush to torture – as revealed in the gory summary report issued on Dec. 9 by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Ray’s interview begins at minute 30:00 and lasts 26 minutes if you skip the commercials between minutes 42:50 and 45:05.