Obama’s Fear of the Intelligence Services

“Obamas Angst vor Geheimdiensten”

Tageszeitung interview with Ray McGovern, October 30, 2013

http://www.taz.de/Ex-CIA-Agent-zu-Ueberwachung/!126524/

Here are a couple of excerpts I’ve translated into English from the original German:

Wird sich Washington davon beeindrucken lassen?
Will Washington let itself be influenced [regarding NSA eavesdropping] by protests from Europe?

I don’t know. Perhaps. But if the Europeans are incapable of standing up, if they accept this, then what can they protest about at that point? They have already tolerated so much: torture, kidnapping, and even secret prisons on their own territory. What we need from Europe now is this: that Europe reciprocate for what our grandfathers did for Europe in driving out fascism.

Now it’s your turn. You see what is developing in our country. And you must warn us. You must speak out about what happens when tyranny becomes possible through turnkey technology. Not only the Stasi, but also the Gestapo had such tools – and used them.

Ich weiß es nicht. Vielleicht. Aber wenn die Europäer jetzt unfähig sind, aufzustehen, wenn sie dies akzeptieren – wogegen können sie dann noch protestieren? Sie haben schon so viel toleriert: Folter und Verschleppung und sogar Geheimgefängnisse auf ihrem Boden. Was wir von Europa brauchen, ist, dass es sich jetzt dafür revanchiert, was unsere Großväter in Europa getan haben, um den Faschismus zu vertreiben.

Jetzt seid ihr dran. Ihr seht, was sich in unserem Land entwickelt. Und ihr müsst uns warnen. Ihr müsst sagen, was passiert, wenn eine Tyrannei durch eine schlüsselfertige Technologie möglich wird. Nicht nur die Stasi, sondern auch die Gestapo haben solche Werkzeuge gehabt und genutzt.

Sie vergleichen die NSA mit der Gestapo?
You liken the NSA to the Gestapo?

A “war of aggression” of the kind that George Bush and Cheney decided to wage against Iraq is [what the Nurnberg Tribunal defined as the “supreme international crime … containing the accumulated evil of the whole”] – kidnapping, torture, secret prisons. These are things that happened in Germany in the Thirties and Forties. Such things repeat themselves in history. Unless someone stands up and says: “Enough.”

Der Angriffskrieg, den George Bush und Cheney gegen den Irak entschieden haben, hat enthalten, was in den Nürnberger Prozessen als höchstes Kriegsverbrechen definiert ist. Entführung, Folter, Geheimgefängnisse. Das sind Dinge, die in Deutschland in den 30er und 40er Jahren passiert sind. Solche Dinge wiederholen sich in der Geschichte. Es sei denn, jemand steht auf und sagt: „genug“.

Glauben Sie im Ernst, Washington würde Lektionen von Deutschland akzeptieren?
Do you really think that Washington would accept being lectured to by Germany?

That is the wrong question. I believe that, in a moral sense, the West Europeans are obliged [to try]. You have experience with this extreme evil [fascism], and with all that is possible under it. You have had experience that we, luckily, have not had up until now. It is a big mistake to wait until you are sure you will be successful. It’s not about being successful. It’s about being true to democratic principles. It’s Western Europe’s – it’s your turn. Incipient fascism is under way in our country. Corporations, the government, the intelligence services, the security establishment, the media, and even the Congress – they are all in one way or another complicit. This is a situation not far from the classic definition Mussolini gave to fascism.

Das ist die falsche Frage. Ich glaube, in einem moralischen Sinn sind die Westeuropäer verpflichtet. Sie haben Erfahrungen von dem Unheil, das möglich ist, die wir – zum Glück – bis jetzt nicht haben. Es ist der falsche Weg, zu warten, bis Sie sicher sind, erfolgreich zu sein. Es geht nicht darum, erfolgreich zu sein. Sondern den demokratischen Prinzipien treu zu bleiben. Jetzt ist Westeuropa dran. Der beginnende Faschismus (incipient fascism) in diesem Land ist unterwegs. Die Unternehmen, Regierung, Geheimdienste, Sicherheitsapparat, Medien und sogar die Legislative sind alle in einer Art verstrickt, die nicht weit von dem entfernt ist, was Mussolini als klassische Definition von Faschismus gegeben hat.

NSA spy program resembles fingerprinting AFTER the crime

Is NSA’s “unofficial” leaker/apologist lying in claiming Obama approved monitoring the cell phone of Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkle? Or is the President?

Ray interviewed by PressTV, October 27, 2013 (6 minutes)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/10/28/331789/nsa-surveillance-wont-prevent-terror-acts/

The American intelligence services have gone unhinged because of a lack of effective oversight. America needs to get itself together, and Europe should help the U.S. [see the peril of] phone tapping.

Above [translated from Dutch] is the headline for an interview Ray gave in English on Oct. 26 to the Dutch on-line NU.nl – the Netherlands’ largest news medium (about 7 million visitors/day in a country of 17 million, plus those who watch on cellphone or tablet).

Fair Warning: Ray uses the “F”-word …. no, not THAT one, but one dirtier still – Fascism. He suggests that the Dutch and other Europeans owe us one; that we in the U.S. need folks with historical perspective and lived experience under fascism to warn Americans, in an unmistakable way, of the high stakes involved – and this BEFORE we follow the example of the “obedient Germans” of the Thirties and allow fascism to become full-blown in the U.S.

In other words, it is time for them to return the favor for the sacrifice of our fathers and grandfathers who helped drive out the fascists.

Here is the link to the interview; the video is in English and 7 minutes long;

http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/3612351/europa-moet-vs-helpen-afluisterpraktijken.html

Full interview (21 minutes)

 

Thousands gather on Mall in Washington on Oct. 26 to thank Ed Snowden for his patriotism

The interviews (links below) of Medea Benjamin, Carl Messineo, & Ray McGovern (about 2 min. each) were filmed by Bill Hughes.

Medea Benjamin:
http://warisacrime.org/content/video-medea-benjamin-%E2%80%9C-nsa-out-control%E2%80%9D

Carl Messineo:
http://warisacrime.org/content/video-carl-messineo-%E2%80%9Cwe-oppose-surveillance-state%E2%80%9D

Ray:
http://warisacrime.org/content/video-ray-mcgovern-%E2%80%9Cwe-won%E2%80%99t-allow-our-constitution-be-vandalized%E2%80%9D